if so, i thought, i don't know who that guy was last night and i'm talking about the moderator, jim lehrer. no, i'm talking about the president. really, was he there? how many boxing metaphors can we make, governor? >> look, i think you've forgotten barack obama who actually debated hillary and biden back in the day. it's no drama obama. that's what you've got. he's a great speaker. great orator but there's no passion when he's debating. he gives you the numbers. tells you what he thinks. if we're going to decide the next president on debating skills and style, then we're all in a lot of trouble. >> i'm going do disagree with you, shockingly. >> shocking. >> i'm just going to laugh. >> ross just laughs. we have seen president obama on the campaign trail when he was campaigning against hillary really litigate his point, really make it strongly drive it home. you saw none of that last night. you saw him sort of going along with mitt romney's numbers and realizing he wasn't prepared enough. so i think you're going to have to see a real shift in how he approaches the next debate and that's why